A 416 dilemma. What to do?

[Panomaniac]

Here's my dilemma and saga. GM knows it well, as he followed it step by step.

About a year ago I bout a pair of 416As off eBay. They were reasonably price for the shape they where in. Had come out of a pair of A7s somewhere in Jersey. But had been reconed with MI cones. They were pretty beat.

As bought, they worked, but definitely needed a recone and remag. T/S parameters showed weak magnets. So I dropped then off in OK city into the hands of Bill H. He remagged, reconed and sent them to me. Lovely cones, but.... magnets still weak. Qts of about 0.5 on one, 0.4 on the other. No good. Vas not close either. They're way out of spec.

I called Bill to ask about it. He said he was pretty sure they remagnetized them, but they could have slipped thru. So I sent them back. They zapped them again. But they hardly changed at all. So I had to pay for the 2nd remag. Both Bill's measurements and mine show weak magnets, one more than the other.

So here they sit, fresh cones, weak magnets. What to do with them?
I can not honestly sell them knowing the magnets are shot. Or may I can list them on eBay cheap with full disclosure? Really don't know what to do with them. Would like to get a little money back out of them, but do not want to cheat the next owner. Right now they're just taking up shelf space.

[Nipper]

I gave it some thought and couldn't come up with any practical use for them.

I will commend your honesty for not trying to pawn them off on someone else.
Good man.

[mah]

Seeing the magnets will not recharge they were probably from a bad batch. I wonder if there are more out there from a similar build date?

[Altec Best]

I have to agree with Nipper Good Man.:2thumbsup: Pano there are too many of those people out there already.If you try to sell with full disclosure then nobody probably would buy them,and then your stuck with more cost in Ebay fees.If it were me I would save as much parts from them as I could the new cones,etc.. and eat the cost and move on lesson learned.If you sell them knowing that they can't be repaired, I couldn't do that to someone knowing how hard I work for my paychecks.Do you remember who you bought them from I would want to have a chat with them.Who knows maybe you can get a refund.Although it was a year ago.

Pawning them off from one person to another just makes for a whole bunch of pissed off folks.Tough Call but if anyone can make the right one it is you my friend :2thumbsup:

[Audio_by_Goodwill]

What did Bill say? Had he ever heard of such a thing?

[robertbartsch]

You probably have incurred a lot of shipping charges on these already but I would assume Bill could fix them, perhaps with new mags since he is manufacturing new alnico woofers of similar design. ....just a guess - really...

[Panomaniac]

Thanks guys.
Yeah, I could not in good faith sell these knowing they are so far out of spec. Not right for the buyer, and not right for the Altec brand.

Bill told me several times that he had never seen Alnico that would not recharge. Told me it was impossible to beat Alnico so badly it would not take a charge. And yet these didn't. But that's not what I've heard from some other Altec heads. Who knows?

GPA did tell me not to worry about the measurements. "Just listen to them." I did, they suck. GPA did say "they should be pretty close to spec" but would never tell me what that was. Wouldn't look it up for me. When I finally did find specs, they were obviously way out.
A frustrating experience all around.

You're right Robert, a lot of shipping charges in these two! No idea if the magnets can be replaced. Gotta be near as expensive as new drivers, tho.

Oh well.... a couple of big ashtrays.

[Art J.]

2 magnets bad at the same time?????? Doesn't sound right.
Did you test with the compass and ruler method referenced with a good one?

[Earl K]

I called Bill to ask about it. He said he was pretty sure they remagnetized them, but they could have slipped thru. So I sent them back. They zapped them again. But they hardly changed at all. So I had to pay for the 2nd remag. Both Bill's measurements and mine show weak magnets, one more than the other.

So here they sit, fresh cones, weak magnets. What to do with them?
I can not honestly sell them knowing the magnets are shot. Or may I can list them on eBay cheap with full disclosure? Really don't know what to do with them. Would like to get a little money back out of them, but do not want to cheat the next owner. Right now they're just taking up shelf space.

So both 416-8a(s) have weak magnets according to Bills measurements and can't hold a charge .

Some conjecture ; perhaps some 416s from the LTV era just had less magnet to begin with . That wouldn't be that far fetched IMO .

Remember, this is the same management team that thought it was a brilliant idea ( not ! ) to create the 804/806 by removing alnico ( surplus really ???? ) from the 802 to then foist upon the unsuspecting buying public ( who by & large at the time, had little measurement capacity to understand the consequences ).

- What to do ? DIY forum has a lot of guys in love with the OB concept ( usually using high Qtc drivers ) . Your Qtc figures show your woofers are now closer to that OP standard .
- Market your woofers to them as a compromise solution ( some guys want their cake & the ability to eat it also / ie ; want Altec with its historical low Qtc(s) but then implement them in OBs which require high Qtc ) .

<> cheers

[airboss]

You'll spend more money probably but here's a plan. Watch E-Flea for early (no step to cast supports) 418B, I think they are the same mag structure and I'm sure they are the same basket. I've seen blown 418B (white ones) go for $35. Green ones are rare. I have no idea how the magnets come off, but some research may make this hairbrained scheme a viable plan.

Dan